Search Interviews:

Chad Franzen  6:04 

Can you give me an example of when you first started getting into this, maybe where it was much more like the Wild West compared to how it is now?

Jodi Daniels  6:13 

Well, let’s use the targeting as a perfect example, nowadays, or before you had a cookie, which is a little digital piece of code, basically, that could collect information on a browser device, and it would track information. So we know that Jodi was on this website and clicked on these things, and went to the next website and tracked on those things. And a myriad of companies, thousands of companies in between are collecting all that information and sharing it with each other. And ultimately, there’s kind of these data brokers and profiles getting created. So that if someone so company really wants to target moms in Atlanta, they know how to find Jodi. And you or Jodi, in this case, I had no idea that that was happening. And I didn’t have any choices. Well, nowadays, I need to be informed, I need a privacy notice. The cookie banner, not all cookies are created equal. And not all banners are created equal. But a lot of banners will say, “Jodi, you’re okay with those cookies, click Yes to accept.” And that is a requirement now to use those cookies if Jodi’s in France, but Jodi moved from Atlanta, I’m hanging out in France, and to target me, you would have to have that banner. And I have to say, yes, it’s okay. If I say no, then you can’t drop the cookie, you can’t follow me around the internet and collect all that data and sell it and share it with the thousands of companies in between. The other big pieces that Jodi has right. Maybe Jodi says, “You know what, that’s okay, you can collect that data.” And then I changed my mind. And I say, actually, now, I don’t really want you to do that anymore. I have rights, I have choices. And companies have to honor what those choices and rights are. And some of that’s been around for a while, but not nearly the way it is today.

Chad Franzen  8:03 

So when a company comes to Red Clover Advisors, what would they be getting that they wouldn’t have if they just did it on their own?

Jodi Daniels  8:12 

Well, any company can certainly go to Google and attempt to cobble together what is out there. What often happens anytime someone’s going to Google is you don’t know which is right, and which isn’t. You’re spending hours trying to find the information and piece it all together, and hope that you’ve pieced it all together accurately. What we do is we make all of that really simple. We synthesize it down to basic language, and make sure that companies understand what it is that they need to do, because I believe that every company, regardless of the size, can have simple privacy processes in place at their company. And so we’re all about simplifying it and making sure that the company is doing what it needs to do, because not all companies are created equal. And you really have to make sure that it’s appropriate and tailored to the company.

Chad Franzen  9:06

And if it’s not simplified, how difficult can it be?

Jodi Daniels  9:09 

Well, I’ve talked to companies before who have said, I’ve gone to Google and they make a conclusion, we need to do XYZ, and actually, they’re wrong. And in some cases, they’re wrong in their favor. They actually thought they needed to do a lot of work. We have a conversation, I say, actually, it doesn’t apply to you because of XY and Z. And then they don’t actually have to do all of the work. Or they say for a great example, as always, I don’t have to comply with the California law because I don’t sell data. And they’ve taken one piece because they’ve read a lot of articles on a very popular topic, but they’ve misinterpreted it. And if you misinterpret it, what happens when you misinterpret a lot? Well, a lot can happen. And the time saved by not having to go to Google and by having a partner in the guide to make sure that you’re doing what’s best for your business, and ultimately, your customers, because the whole point of these privacy laws are to protect individuals and individuals are our customers. And that’s what we want to be doing. We want to make sure that we’re doing the right thing for our customers and be good business stewards. And we’re the partner and guide to make it all simple and get you over the finish line where you need to be.

Chad Franzen  10:23 

You have recently written an article for Forbes called how and why to leverage your company’s privacy programs during the sales process. In that article, you state that privacy is now a product that can and should be sold. Can you expand on that?

Jodi Daniels  10:39 

Absolutely, it ties very closely to what I just shared, where I firmly believe that a company should focus on its customers. When we are trying to market our company, we’re talking about the great products and features that we have, we might talk about how it’s going to last you forever. It’s never going to break, it’s going to solve some type of problem for you, it’s going to be super easy to set up. Well, privacy and security now is also one of those features and should be one of those features. More than 52% of people will not buy a product or service because of privacy and security concerns. Think about that. That means one in two people are spending a lot of time finding a product or service and then saying, I don’t actually trust the company. So I’m not going to buy that product. If the company really put privacy and security first, they would have that as one of the features, but not just listed as a feature, actually make it a part of their company and understand what are the concerns and objections that that individual has, and address the. And think about it, just like they’re doing with what are all the objections of why they might not buy my product, I need to think about that in all my copy. The same has to be true on the privacy side.

Chad Franzen  11:57 

And in the article, you write about businesses adding privacy to their sales collateral, and you list three steps. The first is building a trust center. Can you explain that?

Jodi Daniels  12:07 

Yes. So think about when you go to a page, you might wonder how much is the shipping, or what is the return policy. And you might not buy if you don’t feel comfortable. I don’t know if I can return this or tell me of who you are, what is your customer service policy? A trust center is a page, we’re all mostly familiar these days with a privacy policy or privacy notice. It’s the link, you see the link, it’s often in the footer of every website. I’m sure everyone listening has clicked on every privacy notice and read them from top to bottom. Because not everyone is going to read those privacy notices, a trust page allows someone to understand at a really nice visual level in a summarized way, here’s what we do with your data. Here’s the kind of information we collect. If you’re on e-commerce site, we collect your name and your contact and address information so we can send you the product. And you know what, we might also collect the information so we can try and sell you more stuff. That’s how we collect it that’s how we use it. Who do we share it with? We only share it with our advertising partners that we know are going to be able to market to you. Or actually we share with the whole universe because that’s part of our business model. If you don’t like that, you have some options. And here’s a list of our options over here. I’ve actually seen that on companies where their business model is to share and sell data. And they’re very upfront. If you don’t want the service, that’s fine. Don’t use it, pay for it. And here’s your choice. A trust page is the place to be able to essentially put the information about privacy. And if you’re a b2b company, this is incredibly important and becoming more so because privacy and security are becoming a very important distinguishing feature. And if I am being compared, or your company’s being compared to another company, and I’m the buying person buying decision-maker, and I compare the companies and you don’t have the privacy and security page, who am I going to go give the business to? The company over here who figured out how to create the page will tell me all that you’ve done for GDPR, all you’ve done for security and so on. It’s a significant differentiator these days.

Chad Franzen  14:25 

The second part of those three steps, where you write about businesses, adding privacy to their sales collateral is an explainer is wherever you can. What do you mean by that?

Jodi Daniels  14:34 

A lot of times companies will ask for information. And the person who’s going to give the information doesn’t really want to give it. I’m sure many people have seen a little drop down menu like, how much do you make? And it gives a bunch of options. And then there’s the option that says prefer not to answer. Well, why does it have that, because people don’t feel comfortable giving the information. And if you think about a variety of different areas, Finance, Health care, kids information, family information, I might not want to give that to you. And so either if I’m forced to give that information like I can’t, can’t keep clicking, because it has a little asterisk, and I don’t feel comfortable, what do people do? They make up the information. And now you’re actually making decisions on bad data. If you explain why you need the information, not only buried in the privacy notice that I have to go find and dig, but actually up at the time, when you’re asking me for the information, I might decide, you know what, that makes sense. I see why they need that information now, they’ve explained it to me. Okay, I’ll give it to them.

Chad Franzen  15:42 

And then the final step is less privacy and security as a benefit of a product or service.

Jodi Daniels  15:48 

Yes, well, I was so excited about this one, I talked a little bit about it already. But it truly is now becoming a product or feature that is showing up on a list of all the different items. And that’s because people, the buyers, whether I’m a consumer, or I’m a company, I’m looking for that information, more than 80% of people are concerned about privacy, wouldn’t we want to address their significant concerns. And that is where you’re starting to see it listed, literally all the different features down the list, and you have privacy and security as one of them. And the companies who are missing that are truly missing out on a competitive edge.

Chad Franzen  16:33 

For Red Clover Advisors, who might be an ideal client?

Jodi Daniels  16:39 

So an ideal client is a b2b technology company or service provider, an e-commerce company, or someone in the media space. Maybe it’s a digital media property, or an advertising agency as well. And we tend to work with all of those different industries because they all impact privacy in a variety of similar and yet still different ways.

Chad Franzen  17:02 

When a client comes to you, what type of situation might they be in? Is this isn’t like an emergency reaction? Or are they trying to be proactive?

Jodi Daniels  17:11 

The only emergency situations that we really deal with is when a sale is on the line, because they don’t have their privacy ducks in a row, a sale has come through and the clients who said I won’t buy from you unless you can tell me whatever the answers are to the long list of questions. In which case now the company wants the sale and they’re scrambling. The other might be that they’ve waited really close to some of the deadlines for various privacy laws. And hint, hint to anyone listening. January 2023, two really big new privacy laws are coming on the forefront. Best to plan in advance to make sure you have plenty of time to get everything done.

Chad Franzen  17:58 

Have you seen a client, close a sale based on your assistance in terms of privacy?

Jodi Daniels  18:06 

We have absolutely because they couldn’t close the deal if they weren’t able to comply with XYZ privacy law. For example, a company wanted to be able to serve a customer and they would be a processor, they would be a service provider under the EU. And as a result, they need to show that they comply with GDPR. If they can’t comply with GDPR, no sale, and they were able to get the time that they needed to be able to comply, we were able to get them through what it is that they needed to have done. And then they were able to close the sale.

Chad Franzen  18:39 

How long does something like that take?

Jodi Daniels  18:42 

It really does depend on the size of the company, truly and the kind of data that that company is taking. But on average, if we have the folks that we need to really be paying attention, it’s around two to three months for kind of a smaller company. The bigger the company, the more complexity. It’s going to extend that range out four months, six months and beyond.

Chad Franzen  19:05 

Tell me about the She Said Privacy, He Said Security podcast.

Jodi Daniels  19:10 

Well, a lot of people in COVID got a puppy and they call them COVID Puppy. So my husband and we already had a really big puppy. So we decided to do a COVID podcast. And I focus on the privacy, she said privacy and my husband Justin Daniels is a technology attorney with a passion for cybersecurity. And so he brings the he said security part to the podcast.

Chad Franzen  19:34 

Okay, and then you guys talk about kind of relevant issues in that in that space?

Jodi Daniels  19:39 

We do, we really want to cover what a business person needs to hear on privacy and security topics. The theme of simplicity and accessibility and making sure it makes sense, as well as covering a wide swath of topics because there’s so much and privacy and security and we don’t want to get too crazy and too technical, but we have covered things like drones, privacy software, different kinds of security software and a long list of other topics. We’ve done IP and trademark work, because there’s a connection with privacy to privacy and technology attorneys. And we also have a very important saucepot for children’s privacy. And we want to make sure that we are protecting kids and digital safety online. And we’ll bring different experts on to make sure that we’re covering what all parents need to know and what companies need to be thinking about.

Chad Franzen  20:33 

I have one final question for you. But first, how can people find out more about Red Clover Advisors? Or about your article in Forbes?

Jodi Daniels  20:40 

They can find all of it at

Chad Franzen  20:45

Okay, perfect. Last question. What are some of your favorite books or a podcast? Maybe that you listen to that helps inspire your current podcasts that you’ve enjoyed recently?

Jodi Daniels  20:56 

Oh, that’s an interesting question. All the podcasts are about how to, how things are made. I just find those fascinating because I’m so not an engineer, but I find how all of that is created really interesting. I scroll through all kinds of different business podcasts. And I really like Amy Porterfield, Online Marketing Made Easy, the idea of just trying to take a very complex topic and make it easy, is something that I try and do in my business as well. And then, from a business book standpoint, there’s all kinds of books that I love. I really like the Who Not How from Dan Sullivan. I very much enjoyed that one. I like asked from Ryan Lebec a lot. And I like Atomic Habits.

Chad Franzen  21:42 

What about Who and Not How Do You Like?

Jodi Daniels  21:45 

I think so often, people are, I know myself included, we have great ideas. And we’re thinking about well, how do I get that done on top of everything else that I already have? And this philosophy is, well, who could you find to help you execute on that idea? And then actually someone somewhere, I literally still have the sticky note on my desk, said they were somewhere in its millionaires think about how they’ll get something done and billionaires think, who will get it done. See, like, here’s my sticky note. And I love that philosophy. Because if you think about trying to grow and expand, we all have so much time in the day. And let’s try and find the right people who can do the things we’re not good at, we don’t like because there’s somebody else who is good at them and who does like them.

Chad Franzen  22:34 

And you found that to be valuable for you.

Jodi Daniels  22:36 

I do. I have lots of who’s now doing things that are not my best skill set or my best use of time, but it validates everyone’s happy, they’re getting to do work that fulfills them. I get more time to be able to do the kind of work that I want to be able to do. Or spend my time with my family or do something different. I’m still learning. I’m still getting better. Every day is a learning time.

Chad Franzen  23:01 

Like all of us, like all of us. Hey, I really appreciate your time today Jodi, thank you so much. That was some great insight.

Jodi Daniels  23:07 

Thank you for having me. Really appreciate the opportunity. So long, everybody.

Outro  23:11 

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