Bela Musits 10:22
Super, super. Now, for all these different flavors, and the three layers you talked about was was was that sort of your idea? Are you a cookie, Baker, by trade or take me through that a little bit?
Bennett Maxwell 10:35
No, I made. I never made a batch of Dirty Dough cookies. But the process of in order for this, to have a low enough overhead that we can get through the next recessions coming up, we needed a model that after what works, which is Mrs. Fields and great American cookie company, they both have been around for 46 years, have multiple 100 stores, you know, they’ve gone up and they’ve gone down, but they use a centralized production model. And they’ve proven that if you can operate out of less than 1000 square feet with one employee making a frozen product, very little waste, then it’s a sustainable business model, I look at other cookie companies that everything’s done in house by hand weighed by hand portion by hand, you’re mixing 60 cookies at a time we’re doing 4000. Like, I don’t think that those are sustainable models, I think that crumbles killing it because they’re the only ones in most cities. But you see that as competition comes, their top line goes down, and their margins just evaporate. So that’s kind of where my thinking is, and then hey, let’s find the machine. And then once we found the machine, how can we get a more unique product. So our franchisees, you can’t make a three layer cookie by hand, you know, you can’t make a stuffed cookie, you can’t put an ounce of hot fudge in a cookie by hand, you just can’t. So then it’s let’s get the machines. And then let’s leverage the model to give our franchisees a unique product. So we also started doing gluten free or gluten friendly cookies, which were the only chain that I know of that does that because we only have to do you know, you swab one facility rather than all right 800 locations, and we just pre launched our protein cookie. So it’s an honestly, an amazing cookie and as 25 grams of protein. So we just pre launch that over the weekend, and it’s coming live in stores. June 1. So again, I don’t see crumble doing any of those, those competitive competition, so I don’t make the recipes, but it’s kind of like, Hey, how can we leverage this model? Let’s get a protein. And then I turn it over to somebody who actually knows how to make a protein coat. Yeah.
Bela Musits 12:34
Very nice. Now, the other thing I I really liked about what you’re talking about is with decentralized, sort of preparing things, freezing them and then shipping them out to your your franchisees is that you get consistency, right, one of the one of the important things in sort of, when I when I become familiar with the Dirty Dough, that I see another one, I know what I’m gonna get when I go into that other one. And if I, you know, I already know I like it. So I don’t have to worry, it’s like going into a brand new restaurant for the first time, you’re never quite sure what the experience is going to be like. So this consistency in experience is really important. So along those lines, what have you guys done with your franchisees to make sure that experience from the time a customer walks in the door to the time the customer takes the bite of that cookie is really consistent and high quality,
Bennett Maxwell 13:25
I would say you start with kind of the the look and the feel of the store, you know, the layouts are roughly the same, you have a dirty little logo on one side. And then in the background, we do customize that per location, which is fun. So you give me five landmarks. And we kind of build it to that into that wall mural. And then the cookies themselves. Again, I mean, when you have a different brand that you have hundreds of locations and all of them are making from scratch. Now you’re depending on 10s of 1000s of teenagers, right for that quality control, and we just don’t want facility. So I think that helps a lot. But having the processes, you can still have the exact same cookie, but if you your oven wasn’t preheated or you baked a little bit too long, I mean, they’re pretty obvious things. But you know, it can still happen. So making sure that our instructions and are kind of top down. Oversight is similar. And then tracking metrics. Like we have some cameras with some artificial intelligence technology that it’s counting, who comes to the door, how long they’re staying, so we can track order times and wait times, things like that. And the next thing that we’re in trouble in implementing with the same camera company is as the employee hands off the cookies to the customer. This will be taking basically a picture of the cookies and measuring two things. What is the diameter of the cookie to make sure that some aren’t too fat or too spread and then is the toppings with the drizzles are they overflowing off the cookie because we don’t want that we want them to be able to be in the car on the go. So that would allow us to give our franchisees instant feedback which then contract Go down to their employees on any cookies that weren’t baked properly, or had too much toppings.
Bela Musits 15:06
Yeah, well, what a clever way to kind of sort of do quality assurance. And that’s, that’s, that’s really a great idea. So you get that consistency of experience, right, and you get that consistency of the product. That’s super. So let’s talk a little bit about why you decided to do this as a franchise model versus other models that are, you know, around for these types of enterprises?
Bennett Maxwell 15:30
Yeah, as I was exploring that option, I spoke with a group that owns several 100 restaurants here in Utah, and they don’t franchise and I’m asking them, Hey, should we franchise should we’re not franchise? And he said, Well, you know, is it a new market? Which the gourmet cookie space is a new market? So if the answer is yes, then you need to go quicker. Okay. Well, how much capital did you have? You know, do you have enough to go open up 100? Stores? Right? Are you sitting on, you know, $25 million, or no? So that was another question. And then what do you have that, you know, is patented or trademarked? And the answer is really nothing. I mean, we do a three layer cookie, we’re the only ones that doing that. But just because we bought the right machine, and we figure it out. But we can’t patent the process. So somebody else will do that. And then that again, is okay, well, you need to go faster. So based on those he said, You should franchise if you’re in a new and emerging space, you want to you need to move fast, you don’t have a patented product that you can move slow on, so franchisee can open up. So facilitates that gross growth plus just the model, the kind of requires fast growth, right? How do you produce a facility and ordering a flower to get all of your economies of scale down as well as ordered packaging that franchisees by drizzles topic? I mean, just everything? How do you get those costs out as quickly as possible, we move fast. So the faster you move, the better it is for the franchisees on the cost as well as corporate. But, you know, there’s, there’s, there’s other hiccups that come with with fast growth, which we’re always dealing with.
Bela Musits 17:08
Yeah, yeah. So share one of those one or two of those with us if you wouldn’t mind. Yeah.
Bennett Maxwell 17:16
Cookies. So us. I argue that this is the most simplistic food franchise that someone can buy right now. And in return, that means it makes it one of the most complicated franchisor companies you could run. Because we’re not just providing support, but we’re providing we are also a food manufacturing company now. And we’re also a logistics company, you know, so that’s right, it’s a lot more, I guess, trial and error. So one of the things that comes to mind was an error that we had that we shipped out a bad batch of cookies. And we didn’t know it was a bad batch, because we tested some at the beginning and some at the end. But something went off anyways. And we’re shipping cookies to another state. And the cookies were just they tasted fine. But the spread was too much. And they didn’t fit in, in the packaging. So we couldn’t serve those. And it was you switch flowers, because when flowers running low anyways, you match, you match up unbleached with unbleached all purpose with all purpose protein, same protein content with same protein content, but it was the absorption rate that got us the absorption rate wasn’t the same, you know, so that was something that we that we you know, obviously as corporate, we take the head off, say, sorry, we returned the product. And we experienced a loss there. But that was that just happened recently. And it’s still still on my mind, though I still
Bela Musits 18:32
fresh, fresh in your mind. Yeah, I think somebody wants once said to me that baking, you know, involves chemistry. So the percentage of things and the variability is important. Yes. And yeah, you have to really control those parameters. Because, like I said, it’s chemistry, it’s not just mixing two liquids together and adding a little salt. It’s a little more complicated than that.
Bennett Maxwell 18:57
Yeah, we also do a mobile franchise. So like a food truck or food trail, to allow people to jump into franchising with a lower entry cost. And then also lower risk because you’re not signing you know, a tenure. Sure retail pad with a personal guarantee, you can always move this business hit up events. If it doesn’t go good. Go to the next city. Anyways, we just had an event this last week, and it requires a 220-volt plugin, but there wasn’t one available. So it’s like, oh, well, we’re not serving that many cookies, we already have a warmer inside. Let’s just plug in the warmer, because that just needs a 220 or just a normal 120 outlet. But it wasn’t wired for that. So the only way to get that warmer on is the 220 So now it’s Iraq. Now we have to go kind of retrofit that just something we never thought about and retrofit that so it can be plugged in separately along with the lights and the point of sale system. So you can still operate everything but the oven on just a normal outlet, and then make the change going forward. But that was one that I just discovered two days ago.
Bela Musits 19:59
Yeah, yeah. Are there there’s, there’s, when you’re doing something new, there’s always new discoveries, right? Yeah, it’s always the unanticipated? Do you provide a level of training for your franchisees?
Bennett Maxwell 20:12
Yeah, leading up about a month before the grand opening, there’s a two-day online training that they take everything that could take them more than two days, depending on how many hours, then they fly into Utah into our headquarters. And they spend a day or two at our facility, being trained by us and third party vendors, and you know, the marketing side and the point of sale side, technical support, just getting to know everybody. And then they also do an opening shift in the store, and in an actual storefront and a closing shift. So they weren’t on kind of day, as well. So, I mean, in a week, you have an end, some people are like, Oh, that’s, you know, that’s pretty quick training only two or three days in person. And then other people are like, well, what are you going to train me on? It’s just put cookies in the oven. And I tend to agree with those the latter part, but, but we go over everything to really provide that training. And then there’s a video courses and stuff that they can refer to, and we’re always building that out.
Bela Musits 21:09
Cool, cool. And how to, let’s say I opened one of these here in my town in upstate New York, Albany. Do you help me get the word out? Do you help me do advertising? Is there some kind of program that we can sign up for?
Bennett Maxwell 21:24
Yes, we use the same company that does our social media marketing, we pay for that. And that’s in the FTD, the Franchise Disclosure Document as included in the grand opening costs. So that’s taken care of for you with corporate now the franchisees that have the best grand openings on top of what we do, which is, you know, getting putting that social media out and just advertising it, trying to get some PR around it. The franchisees on top of that, they sometimes go get their own PR, and that is probably the biggest impact is if you have, you know, a local news station covering it or not, or multiple. And then some of them have also contacted like cities that they’re opening and say, Hey, can you post this on your social media accounts, and then you get like the, you know, Miss Albany, they have that, you know, to show up with a ribbon cutting ceremony. So there’s a few creative things that we recommend that our franchisees do. Yeah, but for the most part, you know, we will do it regardless of if they’re if they’re doing it on their own front. Yeah, yeah, super.
Bela Musits 22:29
Now, let’s, let’s take a little switch, and sort of go back to selling those candy bars in elementary school. So talk to me a little bit about, you know, your journey to get here.
Bennett Maxwell 22:45
Um, I grew up here in Utah, I was number seven of nine kids. So it’s towards the end with a single mom. And so it was just, it was hectic. You know, any, you were just hustling all the time to get out to get what you needed to get. So yeah, started early on, and me and my brothers would just find any ways you can make money. So selling candy bars at school or selling shaved ice, like snow cones on the corner, or we had lemonade stands, I started going door to door in junior high to sell lawn aeration with some of my brothers. So it just kind of got me in that mindset of which I think is a very important mindset for Ben’s business. Like, just get out there, right? Go, go try. And if you fail, it doesn’t really matter, you gain experience, and what that experience typically comes confidence which is worth way more than whatever you lost, you know, in time or finances, because now you’re way more confident on that at that next gig. So just starting off on that sales game, and that hustle kind of, you know, entrepreneurs a little kid I think was super beneficial and leading me to now owning dirty dough before I had a solar company before that I was doing door to door sales, but I was able to exceed and all of that because of that mentality.
Bela Musits 24:01
Yeah. Yeah. And, and what as you as you think about building this out further, how do you think about sort of leadership and culture within the within the business and your franchisees?
Bennett Maxwell 24:20
I think it’s everything. I mean, it’s super important. It’s something that I’m not good at, at all. Um, one of the first things I did the month that we franchised about 18 months ago, I heard all a CEO that has been doing this for quite a while she did Maui while we smoothies and coffee in at three grew to over 650 locations before selling it and then took another brand zero to 90 and a few years. So she’s way better at that. So I think it is very important. I also recognize that I’m not the best one to do that. So I hired a CEO that could do that. And we’re still building that. Making sure that the leadership is you know, the leadership is right and in that everything kind of trickles down in their organizations because we kind of have a head over or logistics company or production company over the franchise company, etc. So just making sure I guess it’s top down.
Bela Musits 25:12
Yeah, yeah. Well, it’s, it’s unusual that to hear a founder, say, Hey, I understand what my limitations are. And I know I don’t know how to do these things. Well, so I’m gonna bring someone else someone else in, who really does those well. So my hat’s off to you for kind of number one, recognizing it, and then doing something about it. Right, as opposed to going to get a book on leadership and reading it and say, Okay, now I know how to do this.
Bennett Maxwell 25:41
Yeah, it’s, it’s a lot more effective for me to stick with what I’m good at. And I make more money doing that. And I make the company more money doing that. So I don’t know if it’s worth the time to pick up a book and try to learn everything, rather than just like, I’m just gonna stay in my lane and hire somebody smarter than me.
Bela Musits 25:57
Yeah. Yeah. So if, let’s say someone is listening to this podcast, and they’re, and they’re graduating soon, and they’re thinking of maybe opening a franchise of some sort, what sort of advice would you give them?
Bennett Maxwell 26:13
To current franchisees, you know, because you have, whatever the experience that the salesperson gives you, or portrays to you, and then you have some information on the franchise disclosure documents. Yeah. But really, I think it’s, it’s just so relationship based, at least for us with being so new, and opening up so many stores, all at once, kind of, there’s a lot of hiccups. And it’s, you know, are our franchisees okay with that? Are we okay with that? Anyway, so those are things that only existing franchisees Can, can really know about. And then the other thing is, there’s some great loan options for franchises. So you don’t need to have you know, 250 cash or 500 cash, you can have 50 cash, you know, pay the franchise fee, go get an SBA loan, you know, a tenure SBA loan with with decent rates. And so you can get in a little bit sooner rather than later.
Bela Musits 27:13
Yeah. Excellent. That’s great advice. So then, where can listeners go to find out more about Dirty Dough?
Bennett Maxwell 27:21
dirtydoughcookies.com. So that has the information. I think we have 19 stores that we’ve opened, and, and that shows all the coming soon. I think we’re going to end this summer with around 60 Open locations, which is exciting. So there’s a lot more coming on there. And then there’s also information on franchising to connect with me. I do try to post daily, some good content and business ownership and mental health and purpose based businesses, things like that. So Bennett, Maxwell, just my first and last name.com has links to all the social medias. Yeah, excellent. So yeah, let
Bela Musits 27:56
that just reminded me of one thing. So one other question, you talked a little bit about mental health. And it’s, you know, it’s part of was in your intro as well expand upon that a little bit.
Bennett Maxwell 28:08
I had a solar company that I worked really hard at, and I have a wife and three kids. And I was working the nights and the weekends, because it was going to be worth it. You know, when XYZ happened, which was x amount of dollars in the bank or residual or whatever that was, well, I sold the company just under two years ago. And almost immediately I you know, I got that dopamine rush and I felt great. I had the cash, I had some residual I had a handful of rental properties, whatever. But that goes away, right? And then and then I immediately was like, Okay, well, what’s the next goal that I’m gonna do until I give myself more free time to be, you know, on vacation with my family to therefore make me happier. So after I sold the solar company, I realized that that I was in and I knew I was going to put the next shiny object out there to feel better when I hit that. So I really did some internal soul searching my midlife crisis. And I narrowed it down to like, what do I want? What is my mission, and it’s to find joy and fulfillment despite life’s dirtiness and myself and others so and that’s now dirty does mission statement as well, but it’s all about joy and fulfillment, despite life’s dirtiness is don’t wait to sell the solar company. Don’t wait for life to be perfect. You need to have that now and you need to focus on yourself first. And then you can start helping other people. So that and just having kids and knowing the mental health crisis is like over 50% of women are girls before they’re in like high school experience. I forgot what it was like lasting sadness or something like that our depressive episode, and it’s just like, what do you do? What is causing that and it’s the Instagram effect. The social media effect of my reality is where I’m at right but the expectation of where I think I should be continues to increase higher and higher as I look at everybody else’s highlight reels on social media. And that distance between expectations and reality is causing the sadness, depression, anxiety. So how do you fight against that, and I wanted to do that with our product, like a cookie is not supposed to look perfect, and it doesn’t need to look perfect. And then so all the messaging and the branding around the company, whether you’re in store, on the windows, or on each of our packaging, you’ll see things like, we care about your feelings, or the inside matters most or you know, life gets messy, and that’s okay. Things like that.
Bela Musits 30:33
Oh well, that’s a really nice, like, you know what, that’s just a great way to finish up the podcast. There was just some really thoughtful words on your part. Bennett, thank you so much for being on the podcast. You were a wonderful guest. And I really enjoyed our conversation.
Bennett Maxwell 30:48
Likewise, thanks for having me.
Outro 30:50
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