Jen Brown is the Founder and Executive Leadership Coach at Journey of Grace Leadership Coaching, where she helps leaders strengthen communication, develop others, and lead with greater intention and impact. Before launching her coaching practice, she spent more than 23 years in the US Department of State Foreign Service, leading diverse teams in high-pressure environments across the United States, Latin America, and beyond. She is an ICF Associate Certified Coach, a Certified Professional Co-Active Coach, and a Maxwell Leadership DISC Consultant. Drawing on diplomacy, coaching, and real-world crisis leadership, Jen helps leaders build trust, transfer ownership, develop stronger teams, and create sustainable results.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
- [1:43] How Jen Brown’s 23-year foreign service career shaped her leadership journey
- [2:31] The high-pressure leadership lessons from Colombia, Turkmenistan, Venezuela, Honduras, and Ecuador
- [4:33] Why working with a leadership coach inspired Jen to launch Journey of Grace
- [7:55] The “decision transfer” approach which builds trust, clarity, ownership, and accountability
- [10:33] Why unclear delegation creates micromanagement instead of genuine empowerment
- [13:01] How coaching questions turn employee problems into opportunities for development
- [15:28] The importance of supporting team members after mistakes and creating psychological trust
- [24:57] Why giving grace to yourself and others is essential to Jen’s leadership philosophy
In this episode…
Growing businesses often hit a leadership ceiling when founders and executives remain the default source for answers, decisions, and problem-solving. Sustainable growth requires leaders to build trust, clarify expectations, and develop team members who can take genuine ownership without constant oversight. How can leaders transfer decision-making responsibility without losing accountability or slipping into micromanagement?
According to Jen Brown, who helps business owners and leaders move from autopilot to intentional leadership with Journey of Grace Leadership Coaching, the answer is to treat delegation as a deliberate transfer of decisions rather than a simple handoff of tasks. Leaders should first build connection and trust, then define what success looks like, explain the why, establish authority boundaries, set milestones and escalation paths, and use feedback loops to confirm understanding. When employees bring problems, leaders can coach them to explain what they have tried and propose a solution, developing judgment instead of dependency. The result is greater ownership, stronger accountability, and more leadership capacity across the team.
On this episode of Top Business Leaders Show, Chad Franzen welcomes Jen Brown, Founder and Executive Leadership Coach at Journey of Grace Leadership Coaching, for a conversation about moving from autopilot to intentional leadership. Jen shares lessons from 23 years in the US Foreign Service, her decision-transfer framework, ways to build trust and accountability, how to develop a leadership bench, why culture must be diagnosed before training, and the role of grace in sustainable leadership.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
- Chad Franzen on LinkedIn
- Rise25
- Email the team at Rise25: support@rise25.com
- Journey of Grace Coaching
- Jen Brown on LinkedIn
- Ripple Effect Leadership on Apple Podcasts
- Cal Newport
- Gallup’s Preventable-Turnover Research
- Colin Powell
- Hugo Rodriguez on LinkedIn
Quotable Moments
- “It’s often faster, so we think, to do it ourselves. And that’s where we miss the opportunity to really shift gears as a leader.”
- “Awareness by itself, I like to say, is nothing more than glorified hope, because awareness isn’t going to change anything.”
- “You have created a dependency on you that keeps coming back after this one issue.”
- “Leadership is really that influence. It’s the relationships that we build, the connection, and the trust that we establish.”
- “When you see every person, regardless of rank, then you are valuing your team.”
Action Steps
- Identify where you are the bottleneck: Notice the decisions, problems, and responsibilities that repeatedly come back to you, and determine which can be transferred to your team.
- Build trust before transferring ownership: Strengthen relationships with team members so delegation becomes a genuine transfer of responsibility rather than simply assigning more work.
- Clarify expectations before handing off decisions: Define what success looks like, explain the why, establish authority boundaries, set milestones, and agree on an escalation path.
- Coach employees instead of immediately giving answers: When someone brings you a problem, ask what they have already tried, what they recommend, and where they anticipate challenges.
- Develop leadership capacity before you need it: Use regular one-on-ones, cross-training, documented processes, and intentional development to create a leadership bench that reduces dependence on any one person.
Sponsor for this episode…
At Rise25 we help B2B businesses give to and connect to your ‘Dream 200’ relationships and partnerships.
We help you cultivate amazing relationships in 2 ways.
#1 Podcasting
#2 Strategic Gifting
#1 Our Predictable Podcast ROI Program
At Rise25, we’re committed to helping you connect with your Dream 200 referral partners, clients, and strategic partners through our done-for-you podcast solution.
We’re a professional podcast production agency that makes creating a podcast effortless. Since 2009, our proven system has helped thousands of B2B businesses build strong relationships with referral partners, clients, and audiences without doing the hard work.
What do you need to start a podcast?
When you use our proven system, all you need is an idea and a voice. We handle the strategy, production, and distribution – you just need to show up and talk.
The Rise25 podcasting solution is designed to help you build a profitable podcast. This requires a specific strategy, and we’ve got that down pat. We focus on making sure you have a direct path to ROI, which is the most important component. Plus, our podcast production company takes any heavy lifting of production and distribution off your plate.
We make distribution easy.
We’ll distribute each episode across more than 11 unique channels, including iTunes, Spotify, and Amazon Podcasts. We’ll also create copy for each episode and promote your show across social media.
Cofounders Dr. Jeremy Weisz and John Corcoran credit podcasting as being the best thing they have ever done for their businesses. Podcasting connected them with the founders/CEOs of P90x, Atari, Einstein Bagels, Mattel, Rx Bars, YPO, EO, Lending Tree, FreshBooks, and many more.
The relationships you form through podcasting run deep. Jeremy and John became business partners through podcasting. They have even gone on family vacations and attended weddings of guests who have been on the podcast.
Podcast production has a lot of moving parts and is a big commitment on our end; we only want to work with people who are committed to their business and to cultivating amazing relationships.
Are you considering launching a podcast to acquire partnerships, clients, and referrals? Would you like to work with a podcast agency that wants you to win?
Rise25 Cofounders, Dr. Jeremy Weisz and John Corcoran, have been podcasting and advising about podcasting since 2008.
#2 Our Comprehensive Corporate Gifting Program
Elevate business relationships with customers, partners, staff, and prospects through gifting.
At Rise25, thoughtful and consistent gifting is a key component of staying top of mind and helps build lasting business relationships. Our corporate gift program is designed to simplify your process by delivering a full-service corporate gifting program — from sourcing and hand selecting the best gifts to expert packaging, custom branding, reliable shipping, and personalized messaging on your branded stationary.
Our done-for-you corporate gifting service ensures that your referral partners, prospects, and clients receive personalized touchpoints that enhance your business gifting efforts and provide a refined executive gifting experience. Whether you’re looking to impress key stakeholders or boost client loyalty, our comprehensive approach makes it easy and affordable.
Discover how Rise25’s personalized corporate gifting program can help you create lasting impressions. Get started today and experience the difference a strategic gifting approach can make.
Email us through our contact form.
You can learn more and watch a video on how it works here: https://rise25.com/giftprogram/
Contact us now at support@rise25.com or message us here https://rise25.com/contact/
Powered by Rise25 Podcast Production Company
Episode Transcript
Intro: 00:04
Welcome to the Top Business Leaders Show. Powered by Rise25 Media; we feature top founders, executives, and business leaders from all over the world.
Chad Franzen: 00:19
Hi. Chad Franzen here, co-host of the Top Business Leaders Show, where we feature CEOs, entrepreneurs and top leaders in the business world. This episode is brought to you by Rise25. We help B2B businesses reach their dream relationships and connect with more clients, referrals, and strategic partnerships and get ROI through done for you podcasts. If you have a B2B business and want to build great relationships, there’s no better way to do it than to profile the people and companies you admire on your own podcast.
To learn more, go to rise25.com, or you can email us at supportrise25.com. My guest today is Jen Brown. Jen is a speaker, executive leadership coach, former US diplomat, and founder of Journey of Grace Leadership Coaching, where she helps business owners and leaders move from autopilot to intentional leadership. Drawing on 23 years leading diverse teams in high pressure environments around the world, she helps leaders build trust and accountability, transfer decisions with intention, and develop teams that think, decide and lead with greater ownership. Her work is ultimately about creating leadership capacity that multiplies.
So growth doesn’t depend on any one person carrying it all. Jen, thanks so much for joining me today. How are you?
Jen Brown: 01:27
I’m great. Thank you so much for the opportunity to join you.
Chad Franzen: 01:30
Yes, it’s great to talk to you. Hey, tell me what kind of tell me a little bit about your journey up to the point where you started Journey of Grace coaching. I mean, you had 23 years as a diplomat, so that sounds very interesting. Tell me a little bit about that.
Jen Brown: 01:43
Yeah. No thanks. I was working full time and going to school in the evening and learned about this thing called the Foreign Service. And I said my major was in Spanish, and I said, well, I want to live in Latin America. And I chose that path.
I passed the exams, got in, and it was a remarkable career, a remarkable opportunity to serve from a different perspective. And I got to work alongside the military, all aspects of the US government in intense environments overseas, mostly in Latin America. for me. And so just what a humbling opportunity. And that’s also where my leadership journey started.
Chad Franzen: 02:23
Sure. So what if you could just tell us maybe a few of the countries that you lived in and what made some of the environments tense?
Jen Brown: 02:31
Absolutely. My first country was Colombia back in 2002. So the FARC was still very much there. Security was still very much an issue. And I think it made us come closer as a team.
And then from there I went to Turkmenistan. It was pretty peaceful. But there were some things going on south of Turkmenistan and Afghanistan, Iran area. And then from there, Venezuela. That was under Chavez.
So we thought things were tough then. I had no idea how much tougher they could get. And from there went to Honduras. And that was a different arena altogether. And I finished my.
Overseas in Ecuador. But then I spent half of my career in DC because my son didn’t want to keep moving. It was also interesting in Ecuador. I was there when we experienced a 7.8 earthquake, and leading a team through a crisis like that is a different, a different opportunity altogether. And I focus a lot on the autopilot reactions.
And sometimes those are good. Those can help get you started in those crisis situations.
Chad Franzen: 03:40
If you had not been a diplomat but had just been, you know, living in those countries when you lived in them, you know, just as a civilian, would it have been as, as maybe stressful or as intense as you remember it? Or would it have been kind of just a vacation or somewhere in between?
Jen Brown: 03:54
Yeah, probably somewhere in between. Because working with the government, of course, my mission was different than what it would have looked like to have lived there on the local economy in a different way. So I can’t necessarily say if there was one that would have been better or worse. I certainly worked alongside a lot of expats in the private sector overseas. And then part of my job was to be responsible for U.S. citizens who were traveling and living overseas.
Chad Franzen: 04:26
So what led you to create Journey of Grace coaching, and what did you want to provide that you felt leaders needed?
Jen Brown: 04:33
So through my own leadership journey, I at one point hit the cap of where I felt I was and felt all this responsibility on me. And we had a lot of operational challenges, and had a great team. But again, I was kind of tapping them and I worked with a leadership coach. And that is what really opened my eyes to what’s possible when you really focus on growing yourself first. And after I transitioned out of the government last year, I just knew I wanted to combine my love of coaching and my love of leadership, because it really is a ripple effect that we get to create as leaders.
Chad Franzen: 05:12
So when you were working with a leadership coach, what was it? I mean, I’m sure you were confident in your abilities as a leader anyway. What was most eye opening like? Oh, I guess I should do that now.
Jen Brown: 05:22
Well, I thought I was confident. And then the weight of all of the pressure started making me second guess myself as well. Yeah. And I also felt it was my responsibility to have an answer for everything. Which as a leader.
Right. Especially when we have that technical expertise and then we’re promoted into higher leadership roles, we are still drawing on that technical ability when in fact the role has shifted and our job becomes how do we develop the people, our teams around us, who it’s their turn to grow in their technical expertise. And so as a leader, when I worked with a leadership coach, what really stood out to me was just how that shift. It sounds so simple, but when we are operating on that autopilot, like we have to get things done, we’re responsible and people are counting on us. It’s often faster, so we think to do it ourselves.
And that’s where we miss the opportunity to really shift gears as a leader.
Chad Franzen: 06:27
Interesting. So how can maybe a leader or a business owner executive kind of recognize when they’re when they’re taking too much on, or maybe they’re becoming like the bottleneck in their own organization? How can they recognize that?
Jen Brown: 06:40
It starts with presence. I like to ask this question. When did you recently experience an opportunity where you showed up in a way that you weren’t so proud of yourself? Maybe you snapped at a colleague, snapped at a family member. Well, that’s when we are caring so much that we’re just going. And that awareness is step number one.
So understanding where that stress is coming in and where we’re showing up in a way that doesn’t really define who we want to be as a leader. But awareness by itself, I like to say, is nothing more than glorified hope, because awareness isn’t going to change anything. So we need that action plan then of what to do when that stress starts to come into play. And it really requires us to actually slow down to go further. And Cal Newport wrote a book on this.
He talks a lot about this, but really slowing down to increase your productivity is true.
Chad Franzen: 07:42
Yeah. Interesting. Have you found that there are, you know, there are a lot of capable leaders who kind of have a hard time seeing that maybe they’re that well, they have habits that made them personally successful are holding the team back.
Jen Brown: 07:55
Oh, a lot of leaders, I think at first they think maybe it’s the team. I’ve told this person multiple times they’re not getting it. We’re still talking the same thing and we’re still struggling with this issue when in fact, sometimes it may be the team. But the first step really is that leader awareness. And when we focus on that leader, being aware of how they’re showing up, then what I love to do is work with them through what I call a decision transfer.
It’s really transferring ownership of whatever they can to their teams, and doing that through a process of connecting and building trust, having clear communication. That clarity piece is so key. And then accountability because this isn’t just saying, that’s great. Now we have a great relationship, right? At the end of the day, we still have a bottom line that needs to be addressed.
And so working with leaders through that whole process really starts to then unpack what often can be underneath some of this identity.
Chad Franzen: 09:00
So it is kind of a delegation, I guess, what does an effective delegation require from a leader before they hand the work to somebody else?
Jen Brown: 09:10
That’s really that connection building of trust. Because without trust, the team is not going to. They might do what you tell them to do, but they’re not in it with you. Then there’s that clarity. So we think that we communicate so clearly, right?
But really what I love to say is, are you explaining what success looks like? What’s the reason behind the thing? What are your expectations? Where does their authority end? And then go into that accountability.
Say it up front. What you expect in terms of check ins. What information do you want when setting those milestones with a clear escalation path so that the team knows what you’re looking for, and then have that team member repeat it back? There’s the feedback loop because I can tell you the number of times I thought I was talking to my team member, and we just spoke right past each other. So really having them in that question of, well, what are you taking from this?
What’s your first step? Where do you anticipate the challenge there?
Chad Franzen: 10:20
I’m guessing maybe if somebody is used to doing everything by themselves or on their own and then, you know, not necessarily delegating, is there a difference between maybe delegating or just handing off some work and then micromanaging?
Jen Brown: 10:33
Well, that’s the whole reason I, I thought about this whole, what I call decision transfer delegation to me is, here’s your task. Go do it. But I haven’t set you up for success. And that’s where micromanaging comes in because I have clear expectations that you’re not meeting now. And I don’t know about you, but I haven’t really met anybody who likes a micromanager.
Go figure. No. And right, right. And as a leader, I didn’t want to be that way. So I spent some time thinking about the word delegation.
I spent some time thinking about the word empowering. How am I empowering my team? But to get from delegation to empowerment, there needed to be something in between. and that’s where I came up with this real connection being that that foundation then layered in with the clarity of communication and then being clear in my accountability measures.
Chad Franzen: 11:27
How does how you have found maybe over time a staff changes when they see those changes in the leader.
Jen Brown: 11:34
They actually take on the project and they know what they’re doing and they run with it. So the accountability piece is always the key test, right? Your high performers are going to run with it. They’re going to go do it. And you know, they’re going to get at least 80%.
They’re as good as you would do it, which as a leader is kind of your goal. Your lower performers might still need some additional coaching and mentoring throughout that process. As a leader, I know not everybody’s going to get to be that top performer, right? Sometimes that goal is to get that person from maybe a C minus to a C plus and start to build some momentum there. And the reason why that is so key is because whatever that person’s doing or not doing is having an impact on the rest of the team.
And there are hard conversations that need to come up through that. So really looking at where I am communicating? Where is the team running and who needs additional coaching and mentoring not to the detriment of the high performers? They still need you too.
[Continue to Page 2]
Chad Franzen: 12:47
So if an employee has a problem and comes to the leader, you know, try and get answers or whatever. How can the leader turn that into maybe a moment of development rather than just saying, oh, well, here’s the answer. Go, go fix it. And then no learning takes place.
Jen Brown: 13:01
That’s a great question because when you’re under pressure, the default is here’s the answer. Right. And we slowly, as leaders need to look at that question of what have you tried? And getting and coaching that person to then come to you with the. Here’s what I’ve tried.
Here’s what I’m proposing. If they’re not confident in that, in that next course of action, but really having that person learn that they need to come to you with a thought out solution instead of just the problem. And leaders often think, I don’t have time for that. I’m busy. So now this person’s going to come back to my office or call me again.
But here’s the thing. The other cost is that you have created a dependency on you that keeps coming back after this one issue. So it’s a return, a negative return on investment by just giving the answer or saying, I don’t have time right now to do this. So being intentional is really key with that.
Chad Franzen: 14:11
I know people will respond, respond well to empowerment, but is it possible for maybe a leader or an owner or something to make a team feel like they’re just having work or responsibility dumped on them instead of, you know, providing empowerment and making them more successful?
Jen Brown: 14:27
Yes. And that’s where building the trust and sharing the vision of the mission, sharing the culture’s organ, the organization’s culture is so key with this because our is, is that team part of what the organization’s goals are? Do they understand the values? How does that align with their own professional development goals? And the leader’s job is really to connect all of those dots, to connect the capacity of the team members in a way that plays to their goals, their strengths, and helps them to grow.
And so we think, right, the leader’s responsible for all these things, but it’s the people. And when we get that piece right, the rest of it starts to fall into place.
Chad Franzen: 15:13
So a leader, let’s say a leader is doing more than delegating tasks. They’re delegating, delegating decisions. And they make them let somebody else make an important decision. And that turns out to be not the greatest decision. How should the leader respond?
Jen Brown: 15:28
So I will share a story from my own journey when I messed up. And really this. I had a wonderful boss. I went in and I said, I miss this. This is what happened.
Here’s how I think we can fix this. And then I’m doing an after action review of this. We’ll improve the process. And my leader said to me, my boss said to me, I hear you. Thank you for coming.
What support do you need from me right now? And I thought that was the classic answer of that boss. I know that he heard it from the higher ups, right? But he had my back. And that is the whole issue of building trust.
When you are empowering to say empowering. When you are passing that ownership authority of decision making to your team, you have. They have to trust that you will have their back.
Chad Franzen: 16:24
I’m guessing that made you want to perform better for that leader. You know, of course, if he had come back at you and told you, you know, how could you do this? This was so, you know, this was so easy or so stupid or something. You just don’t want to, you just do it because you had to, not because you wanted to.
Jen Brown: 16:39
Exactly, exactly. And that’s what gets motivation. You know, I think about all these surveys that are out there, and I know Gallup has done a survey on this as well. And I think it was that over 40% of employees who left an organization felt that their managers or the organization could have done something to prevent that. If that’s over 40%, then how that leader shows up in a stressful moment is a deciding factor.
Chad Franzen: 17:10
How do you know when somebody is ready for more authority, even if they don’t have a leadership title yet.
Jen Brown: 17:16
Oh, it’s definitely not all about the title, right? So leadership is really that influence. It’s the relationships that we build. It’s the connection, the trust that we establish and the ability to influence laterally up and down the chain. And that does not require the title.
So you start to see the people who really are hungry to make a positive difference. Maybe they’re looking to take on more. Maybe they’re willing to bring other departments in on something where there have been silos. Those are some of the factors that stand out. But here’s the real question.
Establish or here’s the real point. Establish a regular one on one meeting and ask them. We don’t have to guess. And when we’re clear in those one on one meetings and we’re asking, what are your goals? How can I support you?
And then here’s that question that the leader asked me. What support do you need from me? How can I help you? I’ve seen the building trust.
Chad Franzen: 18:22
Sure, sure. I’ve seen you talking about. Talk about building a leadership bench. Is that kind of kind of where you’re building these leaders kind of behind the scenes?
Jen Brown: 18:31
Oh, absolutely.
Chad Franzen: 18:33
What does that look like? Maybe for a smaller or midsize business?
Jen Brown: 18:36
Yeah, it certainly is trickier. And I get that now, you know, being in the private sector myself, right. So really, it still is if anytime you have one person performing a key function that’s a high risk, you know that, right? All, all of us know that. So the question is how where’s the redundancy that we’re building in?
Do we have processes that are documented and some cross training that goes on so that if one person is out, we can at least figure out an interim solution to this. So until we start to build a larger organization and scale, we might need to look internally. We might need to look at contract work, you know, fractional work and support. So think through all of those options, even if you’re a pretty small organization, because if your salesperson walks out, who’s doing sales.
Chad Franzen: 19:29
Sure. I’ve certainly worked for my share of kind of task oriented leaders. You know, they just just do your job and, and then whatever, everything will hopefully fall into place. But what, how, how can that affect a business? Maybe the growth of a business over the long term, if you kind of fail, fail to develop the next level of leaders?
Jen Brown: 19:48
Well, my question is, as the business owner, do you ever intend to step back or sell the business? Because that right there is your succession readiness score. If that bench is not developed, that impacts how viable your business is longer term, even if you want to keep it. But if you are certainly looking to step away, that’s a major factor. The other.
The other key point to that is burning out your. Your people. How long are they willing to stay and be the only one on call?
Chad Franzen: 20:22
I know you work with leadership teams and you assess organizational cultural health. What can an organization’s culture reveal about why ownership and accountability aren’t developing?
Jen Brown: 20:36
So this is what I love about doing this piece. First, with an organization, I could easily come in there and say, let’s do training on team building or communication. Those seem to be go to’s, right? But if it’s trust, then we’re solving the wrong problem over here talking about communication. And so when we focus on what is going on within an organization from a culture perspective first, then we get to solve the right problems and build up to that development piece.
So really working with leaders who are genuinely interested in knowing, because sometimes this is hard stuff to receive. These companies might be your baby, and to know that you have a team that’s maybe not so happy there, that maybe doesn’t feel the trust with you as the leader. So if you are genuinely interested in making this a better organization, then it starts with understanding the culture of your team.
Chad Franzen: 21:43
Is it easy? Is it easy to change the culture when you have when the leader decides to change him or herself rather than replacing the leader? You know, like I’m going to change my behavior and hopefully the culture changes as well. Or is. That can happen.
Jen Brown: 21:56
Well, it certainly can happen if the leader is committed. But, you know, think about this. How many times do we start a New Year’s goal and we’re in it, you know, for maybe two weeks until quitting Friday, and then we’re done with it. So as a leader, are we really committed to this? Because if we are, then the next step is let’s communicate that with the team.
Let’s be vulnerable and transparent because that authenticity then can start to buy in support. It’s not going to happen overnight. Just like we don’t go from autopilot to intentional overnight. But it’s the consistency of our practice, the consistency of our communication, and asking the team to help hold us accountable.
Chad Franzen: 22:46
So telling the team is a good thing. Telling the team that you’re trying to change yourself is a good thing.
Jen Brown: 22:50
Absolutely, absolutely. Even in my own leadership journey, when I knew I was trying to solve all the challenges, I pulled the team together and I said, look, what I’ve done is not necessarily getting us the best result. And so by being open with them and creating teams that, wow, they unlocked so much stuff. This is where innovation happens. This is where creativity happens and growth.
So be open with your team because they are more likely to support you if they see an honest effort.
Chad Franzen: 23:24
So I’m guessing that that kind of discussion is maybe the first step. Is there another maybe few, few steps they should take to kind of get the ball rolling on that?
Jen Brown: 23:34
Yeah. I mean, certainly, you know, I’m a coach, right? So of course I’m going to suggest working with someone. Yeah. Because you also need someone who’s pulling you, helping you climb to that next level.
And so find yourself a coach or a mentor, someone who can walk with you and get to that next level from there. It’s not enough to just have one conversation with the team. It is constant work. And I would say at that point, look at your calendar because your calendar is going to reflect your priorities. Does your calendar reflect how you are trying to change can’t just be lip service.
There has to be action that happens within the office. So one thing I love to do with leaders, if you say you’re trying to build trust, walk around in the morning and say hello. Ask your people, how are you? Do you know if they have something going on at home or their goals? Did they go on a great trip?
Ask them without asking, what’s the status of this report? What’s the status of this thing? Because now you’ve made it about business. But the culture that starts with respect shows people that you value them for who they are.
Chad Franzen: 24:53
What is the significance of the name Journey of Grace?
Jen Brown: 24:57
I love it because my leadership journey has been a journey, and grace to me is a two sided coin. Grace for myself as a leader and grace for my team. Grace for others, and I will be vulnerable myself and say grace for myself as a leader has been way harder for me than giving grace to others. And so I started really talking with leaders about where grace shows up for them. And surprisingly, a lot of leaders, maybe it’s not surprising, I don’t know.
But a lot of leaders with whom I have spoken also have a hard time giving themselves grace.
Chad Franzen: 25:37
I have one more question for you. But first, tell me how people can get in touch with you or find out more information.
Jen Brown: 25:43
Oh thank you. Well, journeyofgracecoaching.com is my website and I’m on LinkedIn. It’s Jen Brown, JEN, (one N) Brown dash coach. Because of course there are so many Jen Browns out there.
Chad Franzen: 25:56
Of course. Hey, last question for you. Along the way, was there a mentor or a leader who you particularly appreciated or admired that you wanted to shout out?
Jen Brown: 26:07
So I have two real quicks. Colin Powell was my first Secretary of State and what I loved about his leadership. Of course, he came from the military to the Department of State. He saw people and he said hello to every person. When you see every person, regardless of rank, then you are valuing your team.
So that always was a model for me. And then I, I also have a podcast, Ripple Effect Leadership and my co-host on there, he and I served together in the State Department, and he has been that coach and mentor throughout my own journey, reminding me, yes, it’s a little cliche, but if we don’t put our own oxygen mask on first, we cannot pour out into our teams.
Chad Franzen: 26:50
Oh. Very nice. Well, I’m sorry, what was your co-host’s name?
Jen Brown: 26:53
Hugo Rodriguez.
Chad Franzen: 26:55
Okay. Hugo Rodriguez. Okay, awesome. Well, hey, it’s been great to talk to you, Jen. Very interesting.
Very, very beyond interesting, very useful insights. And I really appreciate you joining me. Thanks so much.
Jen Brown: 27:07
Thank you so much.
Chad Franzen: 27:08
So long, everybody.
Outro: 27:10
Thanks for listening to the Top Business Leaders Show powered by Rise25. Visit rise25.com to check out more episodes of the show, and to learn more about how you can start your own podcast.