[EO Calgary] Effective Brand Leadership and Team Development With Stephanie Kochorek

Stephanie Kochorek is the Co-Founder and Creative Director of Daughter Creative, a company that helps businesses connect through various mediums, developing and overseeing communication strategies. Stephanie’s journey is marked by a relentless pursuit of excellence, drawing from her extensive experience working with Fortune 500 brands across Canada and the US. With a global perspective ingrained in their approach to branding, Stephanie and her team craft transformative narratives that resonate on an international scale.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

What is Daughter Creative, and what services do they offer?
How Daughter helps companies rebrand themselves
Stephanie Kochorek explains how her copywriter experience benefited her business
What inspired Stephanie to establish Daughter Creative?
Strategies for being a good leader
Identifying the true passions and interests of your employees
Stephanie’s top business and leadership resources
Methods for developing effective teams

In this episode…

A successful organization is shaped by the intricate interplay between branding, leadership, and team dynamics. As these elements intertwine, they form a tapestry of influence that drives businesses forward. How can these foundational pillars align to sculpt the future of industries worldwide?

Branding entrepreneur Stephanie Kochorek believes in the transformative power of bold branding. She recounts her experience rebranding a business, which breathed new life into the brand, streamlined the hiring process, and ultimately led to the company’s acquisition. This highlights the immense impact that branding can have on a company’s identity and overall success. Drawing from the insights of Jungian archetypes, Stephanie highlights how they not only aid in crafting brand personalities for clients but also help in understanding and navigating interpersonal dynamics within the office environment. Stephanie stresses the significance of utilizing diverse talents and promoting harmonious teamwork to steer organizational success. To harness the full potential of your branding strategy, it’s essential to deeply understand the personas that resonate with your target audience and align with your brand values. This ensures a cohesive and impactful brand narrative that drives connection and engagement.

In this episode of the Rising Entrepreneurs Podcast, Dr. Jeremy Weisz sits down with Stephanie Kochorek, the Co-Founder and Creative Director of Daughter Creative, to talk about effective branding and leadership. Stephanie discusses helping companies rebrand, what it takes to be a good leader, and how to create effective teams.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Sponsor for this episode…

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Episode Transcript

Intro 0:03

Welcome to the Rising Entrepreneurs Podcast where we feature top founders and entrepreneurs and their journey. Now let’s get started with the show.

Jeremy Weisz 0:12

Dr. Jeremy Weisz here, founder of inspiredinsider.com, where I talk with inspirational entrepreneurs and leaders today is no different. I have Stephanie, who is the founder of Daughter Creative. And Stephanie, before I formally introduce you, I always like to point out other episodes, people should check out the podcast. It was a couple of series I’ve done. This is part of the Top Agency series. So I’ll mention a couple interesting ones from the agency side, but also Stephanie, along with me are in the EO entrepreneurs organization. And so there’s a really good one with Verne Harnish, who started EO and so that was a really interesting episode. Also, Robert Hartline who’s in EO Nashville, talked about how I built up a company to nine figures, and then ended up selling it and he has a separate software business as well. So that was an interesting kind of hearing of his journey. And some of the Top Agency ones. There’s a really interesting one, Stephanie, Todd Taskey, who basically pairs private equity with agencies and helps sell agencies and he’s got the second by podcast. So he found that sometimes people sell more on the second bite than they do on the first because when they sell the private equity, the private equity sells again, they roll some of that equity into the whole private equity fund. So super interesting on the kind of landscape of the agency world. Another interesting one was Kevin Hourigan Spinutech, who started his agency in 1995. So it was interesting to hear the landscape of business, the internet and agency life for all those times. So that was a good one as well and check out more on inspiredinsider.com. This episode is brought to you by Rise25, Rise25 we help businesses give to and connect to their dream relationships and partnerships. And how do we do that, we do that by helping you run your podcast, we’re an easy button for a company to launch and run a podcast we do the strategy, that kind of building the full execution stuff, and we call ourselves kind of the magic elves that run in the background and make it look easy for the host. So they can create amazing content, create amazing relationships, but focus on running their business. So for me, the number one thing in my life is relationships. And I’m always looking for ways to give to my best relationships. And I found no better way over the past decade to profile the people and companies I most admire and share with the world with their work. So if you think about podcasting, you should if you have questions, go to rise25.com or email us at support@rise25.com and I’m excited to introduce Stephanie Kochorek and she’s the Co-Founder and Creative Director at Daughter, you can find them at daughtercreative.com. And they’re one of Calgary’s top creative and design agencies. Daughter has been widely recognized by a number of publications, Strategy Magazine’s Small and Design Agency of the Year Awards, Strategy Magazine’s 2023 Credit Report Card and the Institute of Canadian Agencies. I actually had Scott Knox on the podcast, who’s shared some interesting insight as well. Her global approach to branding and their team’s global approach has been honed for years spent working on fortune 500 brands, for some of the most progressive agencies in Canada and US. They’ve worked with companies like the Alberta Cancer Foundation, Calgary Foundation, Own Cancer, and many, many more. Stephanie, thanks for joining me.

Stephanie Kochorek 3:39

Thanks for having me.

Jeremy Weisz 3:41

So just start off and talk about Daughter Creative and what you do. And if you’re listening to the audio, there’s a video portion and I’m gonna pull up their website.

Stephanie Kochorek 3:52

Yeah, so we’re first and foremost a branding agency. Really, where we specialize is in helping companies understand their identity, and then communicate that to whatever their customers might be. You know, identity is a complicated thing. You know, and it’s no different when it comes to brands. You know, we used to talk about consistency, that used to be the golden rule of branding that everything had to look the same, it had to be exactly the same. But now because we’re so connected to our audiences, what we look for is congruence. See, people want to feel the energy, the idea, they want to know what a brand stands for. And that’s the work we do is helping those organizations really understand in a concrete way who they are and then we help them communicate that through often visual identities, a lot of naming and a lot of content creation on their behalf.

Jeremy Weisz 4:54

What identity for a second, and then what point do they usually come to you that they need to rebrand?

Stephanie Kochorek 5:02

Yeah, it’s always different. You know, in the beginning, we worked with a lot of startups like tech startups, which is a lot more straightforward. It’s harder when you have these legacy companies, we worked with TransAlta, you know, a billion dollar business, and they came to us and you know, they just didn’t feel like their identity was aligned with who they really were. But there’s a lot of work that goes into figuring out okay, what is the story? We’re going to tell? You know, to me, it’s always a strategy.

We have deep conversations, interviews, and a lot of stakeholders look at the landscape. But really, we’re telling the truth, like there’s no, I know that they’re like, sometimes advertising branding. It’s like, Ah, you guys are a bunch of liars. that customers are so savvy, and I feel like we’re really quick to be like, Nah, that doesn’t seem right. So, so much of our upfront work is really deep listening. And usually, the answers show up there, this is, this is who you are. And this is also going to resonate with your audience. And this is a story that we can help you tell.

Jeremy Weisz 6:13

Do you remember Stephanie’s example? You know, people’s perception of themselves may be different from how other people perceive them. An example were you interview the stakeholders, maybe customers, maybe partners, whatever, you came back to the company, and you shared some of that deep listening, and maybe they were taken aback, maybe they’re surprised. I don’t know, maybe there is not a time where they’re surprised.

Stephanie Kochorek 6:40

I know, definitely out of a few of those. It’s funny, because what you have on screen right now is a company called Radical. And Radical love is actually the mind of a seed. So it’s how a plant thinks, but also this notion of being radical. When that company came to us, it was a merger between, I’m gonna call it five different organizations, all with very similar acronyms. So it was like CCSI CGSI. And it was every iteration of the climate smart group. Oh, um, and, you know, they had a really charismatic CEO at the time, obviously, a very complicated stakeholder environment, because you have all these people coming together. I work with an amazing strategist named Claudia. And, you know, she did some really, like she does a lot of that work for us, like the deep listening, and really came back and said, like, people are done now with pessimism, they want optimism. And basically, the role of radical or this merger of organizations is to help companies monetize, like the good things they do for the environment. So they help you sell carbon credits, they’ll also advise you on, you know, these are good ways to do it in a cost effective way. So it was really

Jeremy Weisz 8:00

Is this Radical right here?

Stephanie Kochorek 8:02

Yeah, this is Radical.

Jeremy Weisz 8:03

Okay, so we’re looking at a kind of a body of water, and then kind of large ears. I don’t know what he talked about him, like yoga balls, I picture huge, brown balls, like, so anyways, keep going.

Stephanie Kochorek 8:16

Yeah. Anyway, so we came back to them. And they wanted us to rename them, you know, and at the time, it’s like, they’re like, Climate Smart Group is where they’re at. And we’re like, your name is gonna be Radical. And then we tell them this beautiful story of, you know, the mind of a seed. And it’s also you’re doing something radical, you know, prior to that, it was like, Oh, we have to choose, we’re either environmentalists or we’re here to make money. And we’re like, nope, here’s a radical notion, you can do both. Like, both those things are not misaligned. Those things are aligned. Radical will help you get there. And they were,

Jeremy Weisz 8:50

This is Radical right here.

Stephanie Kochorek 8:52

This is Radical. You know, and I think they looked at us like, we were kind of a little crazy. Like, that just felt like a lot, you know, and different people had different notions. Anyways, the CEO ended up, you know, just like a Wednesday, he’s like, I need to come down to the office, like, I need to look into your eyes. And I was like, okay, yeah, for sure. And came down and he said, like, Am I really going to do this? Like, am I going to call my company Radical? And I was like, you know, I don’t have a crystal ball. I can’t tell you the future. But this makes sense. It’s true. And it’s brave. And people love bravery. We want to see people stand out. And we want to see brands stand out for good reasons. And he went for it. I really, I was like, you know, you don’t have to like I understand it’s a lot. We have some softer, easier names, blah, blah, blah. And he’s like, No, I’m gonna do it. And they did it. It was massively successful. I think some of the best comments were like, my kids think I’m cool. Now. You know. They said they had credibility with their young kids because this is, you know, it’s not a stuffy brand like coral was their main brand color. Actually, it was disappearing coral, it was Pantone color of the year because it’s a color found in nature that there’s a chance we’re not going to see anymore. So, you know, these were bold decisions, especially for Calgary, you know, corporate Calgary, like can be quite stiff. But they, you know, they initially couldn’t quit, they’re like, oh God, are we really going to? Are we going to do this, and then they did it, they were so proud of themselves. You know, it made hiring easier, they ended up getting acquired. And the power of the brand was actually, you know, something that they cited in the acquisition because it was a strong brand, the total strong story and they saw value in that, which was, you know, a really, from the sort of look me in the eyes and tell me, this isn’t a horrible decision, moment to you know, the way that whole company just embraced it and felt proud. And, you know, there was some pep in the step because this was true for them. This was real.

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Jeremy Weisz 11:09

I’m sure with rebrands. I mean, it takes some type of leap, right? Because it’s not going to be quite similar to what they have. So it’s going to be uncomfortable, I imagine. How do you… Okay, now you have the brand. How does that translate into the content? Like we’re looking here? How’d you come up with we’re looking at a body of water here, there’s balls floating over, it talks about how the brand translates to what we’re looking at.

Stephanie Kochorek 11:42

Yeah, so this video actually has a voiceover that, you know, really, we call it a rallying cry video. It’s the emotional touchstone for the brand. So it’s really like emotion drives behaviour. Right? Not, not our rational minds. It’s it’s our system one thinking, it’s our gut brain. It’s intuition. Like, that’s how we make choices. We know that that’s just science. That’s Pulitzer Prize winning science. So we know that that’s what we’re dealing with. And minds work in metaphor, right? Like, there’s this wonderful study that I love so much. If someone hands you a cold drink, you’re going to rate their personality as cold. If somebody hands you a warm drink, you’re going to rate their personality as warm. So those intangible effects applied to colour to shape to sound to imagery. Like if I have soft shapes, I think it’s soft, if they have sharp shapes, I think it’s sharp. So when we’re, you know, crafting the Radical brand, you can see the logo. There’s that exclamation mark in the middle, but it’s also a bit of a fulcrum. So we’re talking about balance. You know, we look at the voice of that typeface? Well, it’s all uppercase like, that has a perspective that if that was like an all lowercase serif font, like it might feel pretty friendly and approachable, this is going to tell you what’s up, it’s clean, it’s to the point, like it’s not verbose and all over the place. And then in terms of like, these big spheres in nature, it’s really, like, this sounds strange, but it’s like mood and vibe, like, what is the right vibe of this? You know, we want that connection to nature. Because that this really is it’s a company about the environment, it’s how ultimately, that’s what we’re trying to do. But then these shapes are super progressive, you don’t see them anywhere. Those were rendered by a 3d artist, and then, you know, placed in these, like almost precarious balance points, right, like that ball is trying to stay there. So it’s this merger of the esoteric, the technology, because Radical is a technology company, first and foremost, but then they’re, you know, why are they doing it? What’s the point? Well, it’s, it’s the natural world, that’s what we’re trying to protect. So you know, it’s like, it’s like art, like, it has to, it has to tell the right story. You have to be able to unpack those elements. And it feels right on a very intuitive level.

Jeremy Weisz 14:14

No, Stephanie thanks for sharing that because there’s a lot that goes behind the thought process, which is interesting. And how does being a copywriter help you in your career?

Stephanie Kochorek 14:31

Yeah, it’s funny.

Jeremy Weisz 14:32

I mentioned copywriter because like all the copywriters and direct response people I interview, they talk really whatever it is, copy with images. It’s all about evoking an emotion, right to deep seated emotion not even the emotion that people think they have. But it’s like that deep seated, so talk about how being a copywriter has helped you. Yeah,

Stephanie Kochorek 14:56

I think it is one of our most, as an agency, it’s one of our most powerful tools. Like, my, my team will laugh because our clients cry all the time, like it’s a pretty regular thing we’ll present like I said, a rallying cry video to them. And like more times than not like somebody’s feeling a little misty eyed. To me, what’s actually happening at that moment? If they feel seen, because they’re coming to they’re coming to us, and they’re like, what’s my identity? Like? Who am I? I kind of understand, but I don’t really,

Jeremy Weisz 15:32

Maybe you should do this for teenagers.

Stephanie Kochorek 15:34

Honestly, some teenagers. Um, yeah, they maybe do need a rebrand. And I think it’s this, it’s this feeling of being seen. It’s like, oh, like, you finally see me. Now there’s deep relief when people feel like we actually, you know, when I feel like somebody really gets me, I’m like, Oh, you get what I’m doing in the world. And you’ve made it clear for me. And now I can tell other people. And I think writing is a really powerful way into that. And usually, if we can agree on that component of it, it’s it’s will always lead with the rallying cry, which is us saying, like, here’s, here’s in words, who we think you are, this is the verbal identity, this is how you speak, this is what you believe in. And then the second component of that is your visual identity, like, how do you look and how do those things merge together to create a fulsome identity? So I think, you know, being a writer, yeah, like copywriters, or strategists, I mean, you also have to be conceptual, and you have to understand how those things weave together the visual and the verbal. So it was a great background for me.

Jeremy Weisz 16:52

You know, people may be thinking, you know, Stephanie, that’s cool. I mean, it’s radical, they’re helping the environment, they’re making big changes. I am not that type of company. But here you have a cinnamon roll company. So talk about the rallying cry and how you do with the cinnamon roll company? That looks delicious, also.

Stephanie Kochorek 17:17

Very good. Yeah, and that’s actually an international like, they’re in Dubai, they’re all over the place. Um, again, it all comes back to strategy. And, you know, we won’t work with clients, like if they don’t feel on some level that they’re adding, they’re, they’re contributing to the world. Like, it’s just not for us, because there’s nothing to say at that point. I’m like, I got nothing to talk about. With these cinnamon rolls, like they’re so they’re sold in mall kiosks, um, you know, your audience is teenagers, right? Like that. That’s who’s eating these and maybe like moms that are shopping with their kids? And what is this for them? Like, what does that signify the time it’s, it’s like a moment of joy, right? Like, this is a moment of happiness. This is a reprieve from everything else that’s been going on, you know, it’s a chance to just sit and savor something, and they are delicious, by the way. And so you can see the voice of the brand here, like let the good times roll, you know, for a smile that sticks. Like, this isn’t heavy, we’re not talking about world peace. But we are talking about, you know, just the status, the human satisfaction of eating something delicious. And again, you know, with color, you know, we’re looking at colors that taste good, you know, certain, like color has a taste to it also, right? Like, what’s the flavor of this, like, I can tell that it’s, you know, sweet and a bit savory. You know, but still, you know, it’s also not Skittles. So

Jeremy Weisz 18:57

You know, I’m, I’m wondering what made you start your agency? You’d work for many agencies. What was your time when you decided I’m going to start my own?

Stephanie Kochorek 19:12

You know, to be honest, I, like, didn’t ever have any ambitions of being an entrepreneur. I moved back to Calgary when I started having kids and I was freelancing a lot. And sort of one thing just came into, like one thing rolled into another and it was like, there was enough work that there needed to be other people to do it all. And then I think in that moment, I was like, oh, like, maybe this is a like, this is a secret dream that I’m having now. And, you know, I remember thinking like, oh my god, like if there was just like an office and like, I was the boss, one person like that would be insane. You know, like it just, I was like, that was like more than I could have dreamt of Um, you know, and there’s a quote that was always stuck with me, it’s you will accomplish less than you think you can in a year, and way more than you think you can in 10. And that has held true, like, we’re only eight years old now. And if you had told me when I started, like that we would have that I would have been the Founder of this agency that has achieved, you know, things beyond my dreams. Um, you know, I would have just laughed but here we are.

Jeremy Weisz 20:32

What are the key positions you put in place along the journey? What did you hire for first?

Stephanie Kochorek 20:41

Accounts. So Jill up there is also a partner in the business. Remember, when we first started working together, she’s like, how long does it usually take you to respond to client emails? And I’m like, oh, you know, yeah, like two weeks, or like, one two weeks. And she was like, Oh, she’s like, for me, it’s the same day. I was like, right, I need you. And it’s very much our yin yang vibe now like Jill’s incredible. You know, she’s so on it. And I always joke, she’s, I’m like, she’s like, eight, like, she has the energy of eight people in one person. I’m always envious of that. And just, you know, like, we’ll go talk to every client like remembers, you know, everyone’s kid’s name, like just is so talented. And I’m not like, I do not want to be at a networking event. And that’s my idea of a nightmare. Like, I’m not a good schmoozer. I do not like small talk, I really struggle. So we’re a really good balance for each other. In that way, that was a really key position.

Jeremy Weisz 21:52

How did you meet her?

Stephanie Kochorek 21:54

She worked at another agency in Calgary. And, you know, we’re small, it’s a small enough world that everyone knows everyone.

Jeremy Weisz 22:06

So after Jill, what position was that that you hired for?

Stephanie Kochorek 22:11

Um, Ben, who is a designer. Like, just, you know, he’s seen everything. And I think it’s been really interesting for him. And I, because I didn’t know anything about leadership. Like, I literally was like, sounds cool to be the boss of people like, power. I’m like, that’s great. I want it so bad. And then you, I don’t know, it’s like, in my mind, you get there. And you’re like, Yeah, everyone’s just gonna do what I say, and you’re gonna be awesome. And then when you’re there, you’re like, oh, no, this doesn’t work like that at all. Like, that is not at all what being a leader is about even the slightest. So I think it’s like, you know, Ben had to go through a lot with me as I learned how to be a leader and what that actually means and how to show up. You know, and he was incredibly patient, and he’s phenomenally talented. And just like, will always, you know, if it’s like, yeah, when there’s those fires, and everything’s going to hell, like Ben is the first one to raise his hand and be like, I got this, like, how can I help? How can I jump in?

Jeremy Weisz 23:26

To talk about leadership, what have you learned about being a leader?

Stephanie Kochorek 23:33

Yeah, I took a lot of coaching and read a lot of books. I think I sort of started out thinking that it’s like you either were you weren’t, and I’m naturally really bossy. So I was like, Oh, I’ll be so good at this. I’m like a boss, everybody my whole life. Um, and then realize, no, that’s not what it is at all. Because I am, I’ve always it’s like that. I’ve been told I was bossy since I was a kid, and I am bossy. But to me, that’s not the same as being a good leader. It’s really empathy. Like you have to see the people in front of you, and understand my motivations. And what I like and what feels comfortable for me and when I’m engaged is not the same. Like everybody has their own unique set of things that they’re bringing to the office like story, what they want out of the experience. So it’s understanding that and and having empathy towards it and then making sure that they’re finding a way to like meet those deep needs, like not the need for a paycheck or the need for something to do between the hours of nine and five but you know, sort of that that deeper calling like what are you here for what are your gifts and how do you want to show up

Jeremy Weisz 25:00

What have you discovered with people? Like, what are some examples of deeper callings?

Stephanie Kochorek 25:06

Um, you know, the, probably the person that’s easiest for me, because we’re the same in a lot of ways is my executive creative director Kelly. You know, her and I are cut from the same cloth. It’s like, I don’t care about the experience, I don’t need it to be a good time. Like, I want the work to be good. I want the work to be good. It’s like if the work is good, if it’s beautiful, if it says what it’s supposed to say, like, that’s all I care about. I don’t care about how the clients feel like, none of that matters. I’m like, I just want to put good work out into the world. And she and I are super aligned on that, like, and so we have great camaraderie because it’s like, well, we’ll scrap hard like her, and I will fight constantly, but it’s a sign of respect. Because she’s like, I know what you want, you want the work to be good. And I can say, hey, I don’t think you’re doing this, right. And I know what you want, which is you want the work to be good. But then I have other employees that really have this, like a deep need for harmony, like they need to feel like there is like peace and like calmness, and that there’s like connection and respect. And I think an like early version of me would have been, what’s the point of that? Like, why do you need that? That seems dumb? What’s Why was not important at all? Who cares? Like, why do you need to feel connected, like, just get the job, it’s fine. But now I realize how important that is. And, and, and for all of us, like we need, we need people on the team that have, like diversity of thought and experience. And and so it’s it’s making room for those things and saying, like, I know, you need to feel connected at the workplace, and how do I foster that? You know, and sometimes it’s like, let’s have a 20 minute conversation about your dog or, you know, whatever it’s like, I do those things, because I’m like, This is how I show up for you. This is what’s meaningful for you. Um, and so giving everyone permission to, to take meaning from what they take meaning from and to not say, Oh, this is the right this is the thing you should derive meaning from it should be this because this is what it is. For me. It’s like, oh, no, that’s not. That might not be the same. But it’s still really important that we honor one another and learn how to share space and achieve things together.

Jeremy Weisz 27:32

How do you discover those things? I don’t know if there’s something in the hiring or onboarding process. I was talking to someone who is an executive coach for companies and he implements DISC. For example, not every company does those types of assessments. But how do you as a company discover those, you know, deep callings are people’s personality. So there can be harmony among someone who just gets the job done. And someone is like, I want to work harmoniously with everyone.

Stephanie Kochorek 28:06

Yeah, that’s such a fascinating thing for me. I had a business coach who was so profound for me and I learned so much from and what I didn’t know is that every, like all of those major personality tests, like whether it’s DISC or Myers Briggs, or Enneagram, whatever, they actually all come back to Jung like it’s their Jungian archetypes. And what’s really interesting is that, like, we use Jungian archetypes to create brands. And actually, all of the big brands use Jungian archetypes. So, Disney is the innocent and the magician. It’s a pairing of those two archetypes that create the personality of Disney, Coca Cola, just the innocent, Harley Davidson is the rebel. So it’s funny because I’m, like, creating personalities for clients. And then I use the same, like, we use the same thing in the office, we go by colors, but it’s a bit like DISC, same same. You know, so everyone in my mind is like, a red, yellow, yellow gray, you know, like, I know, more or less. You know, when within like, 20 minutes of talking with someone like once you’re sort of used to it like you can clock somebody and say, oh, right, like this is an and it’s not like oh, that’s it in there that forever and there’s no nuance to it. But by and large Yeah, I find it really helpful and it’s and then it has also really helped me explain my personality to other people because they might be like,

Jeremy Weisz 29:42

How do you describe your personality?

Stephanie Kochorek 29:45

I’m incredibly results oriented. I like that it’s when I’m happiest when things are getting done. So I’m a strong D.

Jeremy Weisz 30:00

Do you have any favorite resources? You mentioned there’s been leadership books or I don’t know about this topic, you know, Jungian archetypes, what are some of your favorite? You know, business or leadership resources? Yeah.

Stephanie Kochorek 30:16

My business coach that when I was talking about his organization called CultureSmith he puts out a tonne of podcasts, he puts out a tonne of great content. All of that is really good. Yeah, lots of books on Jung. Like, are you talking just in terms of the archetypes and how they can

Jeremy Weisz 30:37

They can be archetypes or can be leadership books that you’ve heard?

Stephanie Kochorek 30:41

Yeah. Um, in terms of like, brand personality. Debbie Millman Design Thinking is phenomenal. It’s just essays. It’s a series of essays. Really interesting. Um, from a leadership perspective. I mean, Masterclass is like killing it for me right now. I’m obsessed with Martha Stewart. I cannot get enough of her.

Jeremy Weisz 31:04

Why Martha Stewart?

Stephanie Kochorek 31:04

Um, you know, I just, she’s 82 She was on the cover of Sports Illustrated. She opened one of the top 50 restaurants in North America. She runs this, you know, insane acreage, everything is on point. And she just doesn’t like, like, she’s such a rebel. Like, there’s no one who’s telling her what 82 looks like, she’s like, I’ll tell you what it looks like, I’ll be whoever I want to be. And I love that I love when people break the mold. And you know, she was like, I’m gonna go to jail and become best friends with Snoop Dogg. Like, just and she’s like, No folding napkins better than you do. You know, like, it’s like, cool. Yeah, great. I love that. You never would have put those things together. But it’s pretty magic that she has.

Jeremy Weisz 32:06

Yeah. Masterclass is great. Um, one of my favorites is a Sara Blakely one. It’s a really good one. Yeah. Let’s,

Stephanie Kochorek 32:15

I’m gonna watch that.

Jeremy Weisz 32:15

Yeah, it’s really good. But yeah, I think of Martha Stewart now, for the roasts. I don’t know if you’ve watched those roasts on YouTube. I mean, it’s her like you said, Snoop Dogg and whoever else was there, but it’s fascinating to see her journey. And you know, we were talking about the team and leadership. One of the things I know you’re thinking about a lot is the power of creating together and creating good teams. So how are you doing that? Going forward? Now that you’ve kind of, you know, just learned a lot of lessons from your journey so far.

Stephanie Kochorek 32:53

Yeah, it’s a really complicated thing, especially for creatives. Like there’s a deep vulnerability in creating, like some people, if you were like, go draw a picture for me right now. Like, they’re afraid, like, they would feel really nervous to create anything, if I was writing a poem right now, like, a lot of people will choke up and they don’t want to. So there’s so much bravery that’s involved with just doing any, like creating anything, let alone creating, and then you’re going to have a team of people that are going to tell you why that doesn’t work, why that might not be the thing, or why it does work. But there’s this deep trust that has to show up there like trust and self and trust in the people around you in order to do that work. And, like if I do not, I don’t really have the answers for exactly how you make that meld together. I know a lot about what doesn’t work and what shouldn’t go on. But

Jeremy Weisz 33:55

What have you found that doesn’t work?

Stephanie Kochorek 34:01

Not listening doesn’t work. That’s everyone needs to feel heard. They need to feel like their idea, whatever they’re coming to you with, was fully expressed and understood. And then they’re much more prepared to let it go. It’s like I will hold on to it. If I’m like Nah, you didn’t really get me you didn’t really hear me I wasn’t. So listening is such a big one.

Jeremy Weisz 34:25

I like that. What else doesn’t work? So not listening will go the opposite of sometimes it’s easier to think of what doesn’t work then actually What does?

Stephanie Kochorek 34:37

Yeah, it is. Um, okay, the other thing that doesn’t work, and I think this is a like, pretty universal mistake. Um, it’s like jumping into criticism like oftentimes when people are asked to give feedback. Criticism is I’m gonna say good criticism is really hard to do basic criticism. Anybody can manage, like to be a butyl like to be, like a very powerful critic, I think is an art form for sure. But to just criticize is like, pretty, we can all do that. The people that I’ve worked with that are magic will find what’s working. They’ll see the glimmer, or they’ll see the thing. They’ll look for that first. So I think don’t not listen, and you have to train your mind to not go to what’s not working first.

Jeremy Weisz 35:44

Yeah, I love it. Um, you know, from a lot of times, the power of story is really big and the power of stories to influence and change. You know, we were talking before we hit record, there’s some really, really cool organizations, if you worked with, you know, Own Cancer sticks out. Can you talk about cancer and what you do with them?

Stephanie Kochorek 36:13

Yeah, so that was a bunch of different, like big Calgary organizations coming together, creating a capital campaign. So I think they needed $275 million. There was already a bunch of government funding, but the Calgary Cancer Centre will be one of the leading cancer centers in North America, but they still needed this chunk of change still. And then I think they also needed some swagger, like, a reason to believe in themselves. So they came to us, and they wanted us to create a campaign. And cancer’s tricky, right. Like, everybody knows somebody, like everyone has a person close to them, that they lost to cancer, everyone. You know, so this, the stakes are high, emotionally already. And then, you know, it was like, during COVID. So also, everyone’s pretty burnt out on sadness, like, it was like, I’m not going to feel sad about one more thing. Like, I don’t want to, I just can’t like, I don’t care if a baby penguin just got murdered. Like, I’m already so sad. Like, I can’t indulge that emotionally right now. And I think that’s the, you know, temperature of the cultural climate was just like, we’re done with that, like, it’s already super depressing. Like, please don’t depress me more. So we wanted to give it a voice that had swagger. And that’s where the line Own Cancer came from. You know, there’s no

Jeremy Weisz 37:51

more empowering than, like, sad.

Stephanie Kochorek 37:54

It’s not sad. Yeah, it’s kind of like a big, you know, FU to cancer, it’s like, we’re gonna do something about this. And then we, you know, super talented copywriter that was working for us, wrote this really beautiful commercial, where, like, in the beginning, you sort of think like, you know, cancers, taking, taking the patient down, but then you realize that’s us talking, and we’re taking cancer down, that’s like cancer, we’re coming for you with everything we thought. And, you know, we can use real people like real people who are fighting cancer in the video. And there’s two of them that have since died. And so watching that video. Now, you know, for me, like, I’ll get teary eyed because it’s like, you know, we got to do this, like, there has to be some bravado, there has to be some punch back. Like there needs to be a bit of fight, less, less tears.

Jeremy Weisz 38:58

So what kind of work did you end up having to do?

Stephanie Kochorek 39:03

Um, so we created the platform like the Own Cancer platform, which is a weird thing. But we actually do a lot of that, like, we’re, we’re we have a Technology Institute here. And we’re helping them with like, how do we brand our capital campaign, like, what do we talk about as we’re trying to raise money and it’s not a building and it’s not a programme. So Own Cancer was the platform, the voice of that, and that, and there’s a visual identity that went along with that there was a bunch of billboards and then we created a television spot that they shared.

Jeremy Weisz 39:38

Um, talk about some of the milestone client milestones from starting your own agency. What was the first major milestone that you remember from a client perspective?

Stephanie Kochorek 39:51

Oh, yeah. Um, then probably Bow Valley College was a big one. Like, it was a you know, big chunk of change at the time and they wanted to rebrand and do a full advertising campaign. You know, and I remember thinking like, did they mean to call us? Like, they know, they just gave us this business? Like, are they sure, you know?

Jeremy Weisz 40:18

How did they find you?

Stephanie Kochorek 40:20

And, you know, they were like, We were big enough at the time that we were known, like, and normally through, like, you’ll get invited to an RFP. So they knew of us, but I felt like we were a long shot, like, just small, young, you know, didn’t really have like a body of work that was super comparable. Um, yeah, so they, and then when they awarded us the business, like, I, that was insane, I was thrilled. And so proud of the work that we did with them to because Bow Valley, Bow Valley College has a lot of short courses, it tends to be kids that go when they’re like 21, or 22. And like, Reddit was like, last chance you like this is for the dummies like it was really like, Oh, you’re stupid. That’s why you went to Bow Valley College was sort of like, that’s what everybody thought at the time. But again, we dove into strategy. And it’s like, that’s not the case. Like, these are like the kids of immigrants. And, you know, they don’t have trust funds that are paying for their four-year arts degree. Like you mean, like, Oh, you’re college, you know, you’re going to university and like, there’s a campus pub. Like, guess what, Bow Valley College doesn’t have that, like, there are no intramurals because everyone there has to work like, like talk about hustle culture, like that’s Bow Valley College, and, you know, interviewing the students and talking to the teachers. Like, it’s just it’s, if you’re not going there, if you’re lazy, like you just aren’t, you’re going there if you want to make moves in your life. And that was such a profound insight and also felt so good, because this kind of vibe of like, only outs for the Dum Dums. It was like, no, it’s not like we’re not telling that story anymore. And it was, you know, it was disrespectful to the organization and to the students like the brand was so not was like not the brand, itself, but the brand perception was so misaligned with the ethos of the organization. So getting to tell that story felt amazing. And we did a great job, I’m still so proud of that work, I love seeing the work out there. And I know it’s massively changed their organization and how people see it. So that felt great.

Jeremy Weisz 42:47

What was another milestone from a client perspective.

Stephanie Kochorek 42:52

Um, we got fired by a really big client. Which was tough. Like that was, that was a hard one. We had won a really major piece of business. And it was just like, they were not picking up what we’re putting down. And, you know, we saw the writing on the wall. But when they were like, hey, like, we’re, there was a three-year contract. And they fired us after two. Um, and it was a big chunk of money. Like, I was also like, that hurts from a financial perspective. But it was so valuable on the other side, because I spent a lot of time thinking about what I wish I had done differently. And I did not use my voice. Like, I just felt like I had sort of tried. But I should have been more forceful, sooner, forceful is maybe not the right word, but more articulate, convincing, earlier on, instead of letting it get to where it got to, and, and then if we parted ways, it would have been very clear why we’re parting ways, but I think there was some passivity. And you know, we almost became like, order takers, we’re like, Fine, like, You’re a terrible client, like, we’ll just do what you want, you know, but sort of like a pouty like a very immature response. Whereas now I’m like, Hey, I’m not seeing this problem the same way you’re seeing it. Like I really don’t think that this is the right way to proceed.

Jeremy Weisz 44:34

You’d push back a little bit more based on what your thoughts are, instead of like, you may have disagreed with some of the instructions or requests.

Stephanie Kochorek 44:46

Yes, yeah. So it’s something now with my clients I’m very mindful of like, if I don’t disagree, you are for sure. Like if I think this is the wrong way to proceed, you are very much going to understand that I’m going to send it to you, it’s going to be in writing, we can still go do the thing that I don’t think is a good idea. That’s okay. But I’m really going to do

Jeremy Weisz 45:10

You said your piece.

Stephanie Kochorek 45:11

Yeah.

Jeremy Weisz 45:13

Anything else you would have done differently? So in that one case, you would have just taken a strong stance and been more vocal about it. And then it’s kind of up to them to make whatever decision they make, but at least you said your piece. Anything else? Looking back, you’d have done differently?

Stephanie Kochorek 45:28

Um, yeah, I mean, I think it’s, I feel it, like when the work is good. And when there’s alignment, like, if I feel good, like, it makes me happy, I’m excited to go to work. Like I’m into the meetings, like there’s an energy to thing, there’s a vibe, there’s a mood when that’s not there anymore, like I know, right away now that something’s off, and life is too short and to just continue on and sort of those like, complacent complacency, like we’re just drones all doing the same thing we’ve always done. I’m allergic to that energy. And now when that shows up, it’s like, we gotta switch it like this isn’t have the hard conversation, say the thing like, like the building on fire, but don’t proceed down sort of those, you know, track of finality.

Jeremy Weisz 46:24

Is that to you, when you feel that sometimes I feel like, people can’t put a finger on what it is. So do you just say that, like, Hey, I’m feeling something’s off? Like it just opens it that way? Or do you usually have an idea of, here’s why it’s off.

Stephanie Kochorek 46:44

Um, I’ll tell you, I’ll feel it before I’ll be able to put words to it. Um, for sure, it’s an intuitive thing. And now I’m just really diligent about putting words to it. And it’s like, I don’t mind saying like, these are my instincts. I think this is a bad way to go. Like that’s instinctual. I don’t know the future. I can’t. No, this doesn’t feel right. To me for these reasons. Like, this is what’s coming up. You know, I’m just sharing where I’m at, it doesn’t mean that I’m right. It just means like, this is my perspective. And I want to give you the benefit of it. And I want the benefit of yours. Because, you know, there’s other times where someone’s like, No, hey, look at it this way. I’m like, okay, alright, good point, like, sweet, great. Let’s move on. But I think if you don’t, if you don’t drive towards those hard conversations, and sometimes it’s like, a little peas under the mattress, like, Go search them out, like bring them have tricky conversations like this is going to be so awkward. Let’s talk about it anyways, like that makes me happier, that makes work better and makes relationships better.

Jeremy Weisz 47:58

No, thanks for sharing that. That’s really helpful to hear how you think about it. Stephanie, I have one last question. Before I ask it. I just want to point people towards daughtercreative.com. To learn more. So if you’ve watched the video, at this point, you’ve seen some of the work and cool stuff that they do, but you can check it out at their website as well. Last question is just mentors, who have been influential on your business career life? I know you mentioned the coach at the CultureSmith. Who are some other mentors from a business perspective that have, you know, imparted some interesting lessons?

Stephanie Kochorek 48:41

Um, yeah, shout out to my dad on this one. He’s also an EO. And we, you know, are very talented entrepreneurs.

Jeremy Weisz 48:54

What is his business?

Stephanie Kochorek 48:56

It’s called Long View. So it’s a very established company. Offices across North America. And I watched him, you know, he’s had two businesses and I watched him grow and sell one and then grow the other and the lessons he learned along the way, you know, a lot of them I just sort of absorbed through osmosis almost. But his ethos, the way he thinks about business and the purpose of it has been super powerful. And also, you know, the way he treats clients and employees and the people in his ecosystem has always been the, you know, the gold standard for me.

Jeremy Weisz 49:45

Awesome. Stephanie, I want to be the first to thank you everyone. Check out more episodes of the podcast, check out daughtercreative.com. And we’ll see everyone next time. Stephanie, thanks so much.

Stephanie Kochorek 49:56

Nice chatting with you. Thank you.

Outro 49:58

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